4.07 Fostering Your Creative Practice, with Chris Mitchell

In this inspiring conversation, coach and creative professional Chris Mitchell joins Jennifer to explore how creatives—especially those also working in academia—can better support and sustain their creative practices. From designing personalized structure to redefining professional identity beyond institutional roles, Chris shares her experience working with artists, performers, designers, and academics to help them create meaningful, balanced lives. Tune in to hear how small shifts in mindset, daily practices, and boundaries can have a transformative impact—and why you don’t have to choose between structure and creativity.

About Chris Mitchell:
Chris Mitchell is a Life, Career, and Professional Development Coach with over three decades of experience in leadership roles across the arts and creative industries. She is an Internationally Accredited Professional Certified Coach (PCC), a Certified Professional Co-Active Coach (CPCC), and a practicing creative herself. Chris supports artists, creative entrepreneurs, and cultural leaders in gaining clarity, building confidence, and moving forward with purpose in their creative practices, businesses, and careers. Chris has spent her career working alongside creatives—and loves helping them thrive. She understands the real-world challenges and opportunities of building a fulfilling, sustainable life as a creative professional —and brings this insight into every coaching relationship

Transcript

Welcome back to the Mindful Academy. Thank you for joining me again this week where I have another interview episode where I'm talking to a colleague, Chris Mitchell. Chris and I met in our coach training. Ago and we're both based in Canada and Chris works with creatives and I work with academics and we're pretty sure there's a lot in common.

So I hope that the episode today will offer people who are listening interesting insights about. Working, using coaching to support your work when you, especially when you need to be in that creative space. But Chris, I'm gonna turn it over to you right away and ask you to briefly introduce the work that you do.

Sure. Thanks Jennifer. And I'm really happy to be here and having a conversation with you. It has been. Years actually since we training together. I didn't wanna out us in [00:01:00] any real specific way feeling sensitive about that this week. My name is Chris Mitchell and I am a life, career and professional development coach for artists and creatives. So my practice is very much focused on supporting artists and creative professionals in all creative fields and at all stages of career development. So I work with. Visual artists, designers, architects, landscape architects, makers, writers, multidisciplinary artists, performing artists, working in theater, dance, music, comedy.

And I've even worked with some clowns literally professional clowns clown. And many of those those creative professionals also. Work as academics and teachers. And that was why it felt like such a good fit for us to have a conversation to explore the overlaps and [00:02:00] some of the ways that we help our clients.

Absolutely. I'm curious, how did you come to coaching? Looking back hin, it's all, hindsight's 2020, right? It all makes sense when you see the path from where you are now. But it wasn't something that I, when I graduated from art school, that I thought, oh, I'm gonna become a coach. In fact, I probably would've been like, oh my God.

I don't even know what that is. Great. But I graduated with a fine arts degree and at that time design and visual arts were combined within the same area of study. And I did a lot of design-based courses as a part of my degree and came outta school directly into my family's business, which was in the home decor.

Business. We had retail and wholesale operations and evolved eventually into [00:03:00] manufacturing. And I was very involved in product development and marketing and packaging design and merchandising. And really developed some business chops through 17 years of helping to build that business with my parents and working very directly with my dad as a thinking partner in developing the business.

And when the business was sold in 2004, my parents were ready to retire and. That left me without a job. I, it was also a time when that industry was really changing a lot and I was ready to do something new. And wanted to do something more arts focused. So I actually volunteered at first to help a friend to dip my toe into the arts scene in Toronto who was developing an arts hotel at that time.

And I worked with her to build out the business model for the arts [00:04:00] programming and how that was integrated into the business and actually had the opportunity to develop some of the arts program programming and run that part of the business. For the first six years which really led me to tap into a passion for working directly with artists, which I did do in the family business, but more as a customer often or as a design collaboration on, on products.

But that, that, that experience at the Art hotel led me then to pursue working in a nonprofit environment. And I worked in arts and mental health for nine years for an organization that supported specifically professional development for artists living with addiction and mental illness. And.

Really in that role as a program director, I was developing opportunities, but also really supporting the individual artists that were part of that organization to be able to develop [00:05:00] their careers as professionals and also to, build their own confidence and be able to see themselves as, taking their career in the direction that they wanted to and to be able to draw on the strengths.

That they had, and that kind of led me as a next step to pursue coaching one-on-one. And that's when you and I met. Yeah. Okay. I don't think I was aware that you, that your nonprofit work was working with artists who themselves were struggling with addiction. Has that found its way into your coaching at all?

I don't specifically offer support around those issues, but I do work with a lot of clients who have, who are also working with a therapist who may have, who may disclose to me that they have mental health, challenges. And not that I'm a. And an expert in that area.

But I have a familiarity of, working with people. [00:06:00] Yeah. And so I do bring that experience to the table just in terms of understanding the context. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that makes a lot of sense. And whether it's addiction or other mental health challenges, just what I appreciate about coaching is we start from where you are and look towards where you want to go.

But we certainly don't ignore the whole person, right? Like you, life, profession, personal development, all of that, which is what I do too. 'cause you're not developing your professional practice in a vacuum from all of the o. Separate from, separated from all of the other things that are going on in your life.

Yeah. And very much my approach in working with clients is very holistic in terms of considering the context of their lives, who they are as individuals and the type of work that they do. Yeah. Yeah. So what kind of challenges do you find clients come to you with when they're seeking out.

A coach [00:07:00] who's, who helps, who specializes in artistic practice? It really depends. It's all over the map because of the range of creatives that I'm working with. In specific, in terms of the overlap of our two practices. Often. I have creatives coming to me who are academics, who are really looking to balance, like struggling with balancing the demands of academia and the institutional demands on them with building a professional practice alongside that.

Yeah. And they can come to me at any stage of career development in that, in with that challenge. As emerging or as established professionals, I. Or as professionals who are looking to move, into a next stage beyond life and academia and grow their practice without so that they can focus solely on that.

I also have creatives who [00:08:00] are looking to, struggling with how to build their profile as an artist or creative and as a professional outside of the institution. Yeah, as an academic or looking more holistically at their creative and academic work, rather than feeling torn between the two I that is, you are right in how.

Academics and creatives, whether those creatives work in the academy or not, like the path is so clear that, oh, your work is, your job, is your identity, is your work, is your job, is your identity. And figuring out like what's for me, what's for the academy? Where do I have choice in what I emphasize and where I put my time and what I prioritize?

What do you know or believe about the, about balancing the demands of like [00:09:00] institutional work, administrative work, and a calling your professional practice, your creative practice, your writing practice? I guess what I see like a common thread that I'm, when I'm working with clients who are creatives and academics, it is.

When you're working within academia, there is a structure that is imposed on you. Yep. There are, there are semesters, there are teaching schedules, there are, thing, there are expectations and deadlines that you have to meet that are, you don't have to decide on what those things are.

Correct. But the it's almost like the reverse. As a creative professional, you have to create those things for yourself. Yeah, so really I'm often working with creative professionals or who are looking to just create some structure around their, that is. [00:10:00] That works for them. That's not like taking the structure of the institution and then imposing it like cookie cutter on what they're doing as Yeah, but to create their own structure and figure out ways to weave that together within the demands and the context of.

Teaching or being a department head or, yep. Or, whatever, all other roles that they may have within the institution as well, so that it's not all, they're only doing creative work when there's a break in a semester. Which then becomes such heavy lifting to, first of all you're exhausted because you've given everything to the institution, is what I see in my clients and what they complain to me about.

So that when you get to an end of semester, it's just like you're. You think you're gonna dive into this project and you just don't have it in you. And then you have to remember what the project was. And the on-ramp is so long because you haven't looked at it in four months. And Exactly. So [00:11:00] that is often, I just, I worked with this client, she's so delightful a couple of years ago.

Who was a multidisciplinary artist, but very writing based in her practice and activist and we really worked on, together thinking about like how she could keep a thread going. So working on having some consistency, even if it was like just touching the creative work daily.

Like even if it was 15 minutes. Yep. And but also having some boundaries and creating some time where she could do a little bit more deep focused work even during a term. Yeah. And then looking at then when, there is the summer break or the semester where there's a lighter schedule or whatever, where that, that where there can be like deep focused work that can.

Can move those projects and that artistic development along and [00:12:00] just, really untangling the breaking down how to do that. Experimenting with some things but also working on the personal. As well as boundaries with others to be able to protect that, yeah, because we get in our own way, right?

We, because, thinking about this dynamic where like, how do I make time for my calling within the confines of organizational work that if I don't. Pay attention. The mere work of answering emails and going to meetings. And if you have to teach a class and all of that, you can have, write the book or spend time in the studio or stare off into middle space.

So that you can think, you may have that even on your calendar, but are you going to ignore that because you think there are all of these pressing things that are coming at you, usually from your email [00:13:00] inbox, but also from, demands in the moment. And so recognizing like where do I have agency to say, oh, actually no, I'm not gonna do that right now because yeah.

And so it, some of that is like a choice. Yeah. To prioritize what is really important to you. And it sounds easy when you say it like that is nodding your head and I'm nodding my head, but into practice when your habit has been. To try to empty the inbox or get back to the people or respond to every student's demand and request that minute or feel like you, if you take this time, you're letting your colleagues down because you're not doing this other thing that, yeah. That is it is super interesting how that is a common denominator across tons of disciplines. Yeah, of course. And yeah. I don't think that what [00:14:00] you and I just said like it is not rocket science.

It's maybe something you could read on the cover of a magazine standing in the checkout line at the supermarket, but that doesn't mean you practice it. So how does coaching help people practice that? Yeah, so what I really work on, because. I'm often working with people who have creative practice or artistic practice is to really think about these as practices within their practice that they're developing.

Think more about that. 'cause that sounds intriguing and I love the notion of practice within practice or like whatever we're doing. It's a practice. So that appeals to me. I'd like to hear you riff more on that. Like even the practice of how do you start your day,

how do you transition out of the classroom into the studio space or whatever your creative space is. Yeah. And it's great to block it on your calendar [00:15:00] and you, that's like the commitment on paper. But you know that those are two different very head space, d different head spaces to be in, and you have to draw on different things within yourself to be able to bring your best to those things that, to those roles. And so practices of like just. Preparing to get into the creative flow practices that eliminate distractions. And often I and I, this is not just academics of, artists that I'm working with, but they, there's that two hour time block or day that they've blocked off or whatever, that they're gonna work on this project and they have this expectation that they're sometimes that they're gonna just flip a switch and be creative that day.

Does that switch exist? Because I would love to find that switch. So if you know where it is, let me know, but I'm sensing that maybe the switch isn't there. [00:16:00] Yeah in some creative practices it is built in a way. For example, a, a dancer would never. Start dancing without warming up their body first.

Correct. But I often find that, visual artists and writers feel once you turn the computer on or you get into the studio and you should just be like producing this work of art. Oh, that is such a good observation. What does a writeup, a warmup for a painter or a writer or a sculptor look like and becomes a practice within the practice?

Yeah. Or even just a meditation to get yourself present. I worked with a painter an American painter a few years ago who. Part of what we worked on was her developing this practice of not just run, getting into the studio and feeling [00:17:00] like she had to immediately get to work, but she actually sit with a cup of tea with the work that she had in progress and just get present with the work and let it speak to her. Do nothing. Just be in, be with the work for 15 minutes before you do anything. That sounds lovely. That's what she, that's what we came up with together and through some experimentation and it really drove her to get into much deeper flow, but also into, deeper, literally deeper conversation with her own creative work.

Which is really powerful and deeper conversation. Yeah. What kind of space does that require? That doesn't include the compulsion to just, get words on paper, get strokes on canvas, add something to the piece. Yeah. Because we [00:18:00] sometimes we know and or maybe I know today because I had a conversation with a client this morning about the energy of go take care of all the details versus the energy of being present to the event.

Yeah. Yeah. And just as with coaching, your presence matters. Yep. It does with creative work as well. With any work. You bring into the room the energy in your body the bracing of your mind or the subtle Yeah. Focused quality of your mind. Impacts everything. Yeah.

And what is your work going to look like and feel like and communicate if you are more present versus if you're rushed or frustrated, or? What, whatever your emotional alternatives are there. Yeah. But also what is the experience that you wanna create for yourself while you're doing it? That'll bring you back tomorrow.

Yeah. [00:19:00] Yeah. And also, something that I also work with a lot with my clients. It's 'cause our, we're just so conditioned to focus on output. Yeah. But you cannot be creative without input. Yes. Which is also a practice, right? How do I ingest input? What is my practice around that exactly.

You mentioned something earlier about some of your clients. Working with them on creating or amplifying their profile separate from the institution. Outside of the institution, yeah. Okay. Outside of the institution. Maybe not. Maybe that's separate. Maybe it's not. We, because you gotta pay the bills.

One of my more recent podcast interviews was with, with Jennifer Van Alstein in [00:20:00] California and her work is supporting professors in creating like their webpage that profiles their work seen holistically. So maybe it's not just their cv, but this is who I am and what I care about.

And here's the work that I choose to profile rather than just the latest thing on my cv. So for people who've maybe listened to that episode and are thinking about, what does it mean to establish and maintain a profile that isn't just oh, I'm a member of this department and do this thing, but I am a person who, so from the creative journey talk to me a little bit about the.

The challenges and or successes that you and your clients have worked through when it comes to that profiling? I think, I guess it's thinking about this idea of we are not just our job. Identity is not just our job. Thinking about like professional identity versus job and role [00:21:00] identity. So for example, my client's job or role might be professor, but they are also writers, dancers, musicians, multimedia artists, graphic artists, so it's often, artist slash educator. Yep. And so thinking about, as a, as there's a portfolio of roles that they have as a creative work. Which is not all that different from a, artistic portfolio or portfolio of creative work. Yeah. And how do you, how does that build into a cohesive presentation of who you are and, yeah. So often that is working around that, like some very core work that I'm sure you do with your clients around the values Yeah.

That are common across their role as a educator [00:22:00] and a dancer, for example. Yeah. Helping them really tap into those so that. That kind of brings those identities, integrates those identities into the core of who they are as a creative professional. Yeah. Yeah. And using that language of, your practice, your portfolio, like these are all things that we may use in various contexts, but bringing them together and saying, how can you take what you already know about this over here?

Apply it to how you wanna structure your career or how you wanna structure your life, that includes your career and your family and independent work and whatnot. What do you find? I believe very strongly and occasionally tell my clients in loud voice you are bigger than your job. Yes.

I tell myself as somebody who, [00:23:00] I studied literature, that's what my PhD was in. And I think a lot of us who go into literary history or literary criticism are wanna be authors like, deep in my heart of hearts, I should probably be writing a novel or something. And so it. I imagine, or I tell myself the story, that it might be easy for people who have a creative practice to be really clear that they are bigger than their day job, or they're bigger than their teaching job, or they're bigger than, but I'm curious what in your clients when it comes to that, that the practice of. Putting together your profile of work that illustrates to you and the world that like I do all of these things and I'm bigger than all of them, or I contain multitudes, or however you might put that. Yeah.

I think part of it is like really helping, supporting clients to get past the limiting belief that they have to choose. One or the [00:24:00] other, or that they can only be good in one or the other. Or if they're focusing more of their time and energy on this one thing, then they're not really, they can't really call themselves this other thing.

It's like such a black and white way of looking at things and so limiting. Yeah. Yeah. And I always like to use this example. I read, I often share this with clients when I hear that kind of black and white thinking of I have to choose. And even with artists who aren't academics, I hear this I need to choose a style or I need to choose a discipline or yep.

Yep. And the. This. This, I think as a metaphor, resonates with a lot of, with my clients in particular, but I'm sure that it will with you too, Jennifer, that you know, the human eye can see [00:25:00] more shades of gray than any other hue.

Wow. And yet. We always wanna gravitate to this black or white vision of our choices of ourselves. The world. And think about all the shades of gray that are between black and white. Yeah. And what does Duch Shades of Gray bring to a piece of art?

Depth and shadow and complexity and mood and richness. Yeah. Yeah,

that's, yeah, that is, I. That's a very [00:26:00] rich metaphor. I really like that. That's gonna sit with me for a while. Because, and maybe it has always been this way, right? Maybe every society, every generation has a similar struggle. But this notion that you get, you're recognized for that one thing, right?

You get the award for one thing, and so the temptation to say I have to be all in on one thing. Yeah. Or define ourselves by this or define myself by that one thing. Yeah. When in truth that's one thing today. But I can flex into lots of different things.

You can be more complex than that. Yeah. And

so for your clients who are straddling various professional identities how did [00:27:00] they phrase that challenge?

I think it's often that they feel that the biggest thing is struggling with the balance or where they like the what pays the bill bills versus where their passion lies. Often sometimes it's that, there's. Certainly, lots of academics who love teaching and lots of artists who love teaching.

I'm not suggesting that's not true by any stretch. But I think it is, the struggle is they want and need both in their lives and trying to, find a way to, to, because. When the structure or of a job or paid employment like academia, it can pull all of your energy because the structure and the demands are there.

Yeah. And it can claim all of your identity. [00:28:00] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think it, it's often that it's the personal development around moving forward with intention towards that preferred vision of what they want their life to be. And I think I shared with you when we were talking, but when we were setting this up this definition that I came across, I was gonna, and now that reminds me of that quote that you shared with me.

I have it written down. Yeah. So this comes from the Canadian Career Development Foundation? Yes. The, and they say career development is a lifelong journey of managing, learning work, leisure, and transitions to shape a personally determined and evolving preferred future. There's a lot in there.

There is a lot in there. [00:29:00] What I heard you say just now is like the personal development required to create the career future that you want. And I don't know if this is my idiosyncratic path or if if I'm not alone here. But I think in a lot of careers, not just in academia, I imagine, accountants might feel the same way, that if I do all the things in the right order, success happens.

And when success happens professionally, I feel good, right? So we focus on actions and outcomes and checking boxes that are aligned with an organizational or institutional. Or disciplinary view of success. Yeah and then, and you and I both know that in coaching we find clients who show up and they're like, so I am in my forties, I've hit multiple external markers of success, and yet I don't feel [00:30:00] successful.

What am I doing right? So the personal development is the side that we think comes along for the ride. If we're doing the external things. And it might not because we're not being intentional about the personal bit. And we're also, I think it may be just takes a while to to figure out how to notice.

Like we help our clients build awareness of what actually is satisfying and fulfilling. What feels good? What does success feel like for you? How do you recognize it in your body, in your mood, in your emotions, in the, the tingles at the back of your neck? What does success feel like, look like, smell like for you?

Yeah. Yeah. Because your preferred future change over time. Yeah. Yeah. Perfu preferred future might not be your mentor's preferred future. Or your parents' preferred [00:31:00] future or your colleagues' preferred future. And we get all of those sort of handed to us and a lot of us, for the number of lawyers whose real passion was to be an artist or a writer or Right.

But somebody told them, oh, you need to do something that's gonna pay the bills, so you should go to law school. Yeah. So as coaches, like that's why that learning piece in that definition really, resonated with me and I'm sure with you. 'cause a lot of our work, you, what you and I do is around supporting clients about learning about themselves.

Yeah. And in particular, noticing those changes of what is fulfilling and exciting to them as well as, what habits or thinking. Is no longer serving them. Yep. What am I gonna let go of so that I can experiment with different ways to create that preferred future for myself once I've spent the time identifying it?

Yeah. Or even to learn to [00:32:00] work in the way that works for me. It, you just because you work this number of hours in the classroom or in the institution doesn't mean that you have to work the same number of hours to have the same quality of output or production in your own creative practice.

Correct? Yeah. And just because the guy next door is working X number of hours either in the classroom or in the studio, doesn't mean that's your number of hours either. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Oh yeah. We're gonna just over each other for a second. That's great.

I was gonna ask you about, so you mentioned the painter who developed a practice of entering into conversation with her work through quiet reflection and a cup of tea. And I named this podcast The Mindful Academy because [00:33:00] for me, in my journey as a coach in my journey as le as somebody, so I left the academy semi unwillingly at first and then willingly later, and, but I feel like I spent a decade in.

Various forms of reinvention, and for me personally, meditation and mindfulness was transformative in terms of getting to know I. Myself at a deeper level, what my default patterns were, how I got in my own way, what felt challenging, what felt like flow. And so I'm curious about two things. One is where you see that maybe showing up for your clients.

And then I'm curious, like in practices, since you've talked about various practices, like in your own work as somebody who. And I should ask you, do you have a creative practice [00:34:00] now, but what are you, what are your practices to support yourself? So in coaching, I just asked like the mother of all stacked and convoluted questions.

So that was, that is not a great question in coaching, but I'm gonna give it to you 'cause I think you followed me. This is something that I've really, I think, paid more attention to since I've been working for myself and building my own coaching practice. And I think I've had to let go of and unlearn a lot of bad habits, which also something that I help my clients do, especially when they've worked in other places and are trying to equate that way of working with. Their way of building their practice. Yep. And so I, I actually see those practices of doing yoga. For me it is meditation, doing yoga, getting outside and exercising outside every day as integral to my. [00:35:00] Coaching practice and my creative practice, which right now is really writing. I write, I have a blog on my website.

I that's a creative endeavor for me and in relation to, and integral to my coaching practice as well. But I cannot do those things well if I'm not doing those other practices. I also have practices of working in different areas within my very tiny little home in downtown Toronto.

When I'm doing different kinds of work as a signal to myself when I'm doing kind of brainstorming or creative work, there's one room that I like to work in as opposed to the room that I would work in when I'm meeting with a client or, where I might be working on admin kind of task.

So I have practices around that to set myself up for the flow. And one of [00:36:00] my practices that really came out of, I guess the pandemic, but it's something that I've continued with that I really noticed during that time was having a practice of commuting home from work, even though I work from home.

Because for many years I rode my bike to work across the city and, I realized. I'm a very driven person, very focused person generally. But I have learned through growing up in a family business that to have boundaries. I was lucky enough to learn from a young age to build those kinds of boundaries around my work life.

And realized during the pandemic, like I was missing that transition time. When you're working with clients, it's like you're all in, you're so focused and like to just go from that to like cooking dinner, talking with your spouse is like, it's an abrupt gear shift. Absolutely.

Yeah, exactly. So now I pretty much, [00:37:00] each day I have a practice of, I fold up my computer, I put it away. And I walk for at least a half an hour as my commute home so that I have that buffer. Yep. To decompress. Yeah. Yep. And come in the door. I'm home from work. Yeah. It is interesting how that twigged for you during the pandemic.

Because during the pandemic, we had a kid in high school here in the house, and my husband and I and so we each, had a room with a computer and maybe it was a nice view of outside, maybe it was the alley. And my husband and I, it was as I was leaving. Full-time academic work, but for part of the pandemic, I still worked at the same institution he worked at.

And so our home, our bedroom, our dining room table, every room of the house felt like work. And he was like, oh, I know why this is driving me crazy. [00:38:00] I'm not riding my bike to work. And so at the end of the day, he would go ride his bike for a while and then he would come home. Yeah. And that, that, that physical separation, and the routine, the body routine of what does it mean to move from this place to the next place? It's one of the reasons I have a dog, because like I have to leave the house. Yeah. And I leave the house at lunchtime. I leave the house at the end of the day and it's, yeah. Hopefully a little bit of vitamin D and just a transition from one way of thinking and being to another way of thinking and being.

But, so you can look at those things as like a distraction needing to something that takes you away from your work. Or you can look at it as being, something that is actually integral to you as a person. Yep. And I think for creatives. Anybody who's working in creative work that, that having those kinds of [00:39:00] practices that support your body and mind Yep.

Are absolutely core. Yeah, I agree. That brings me too, to the other piece of that definition, which I really strongly embrace, which is that leisure is part of career development. Ooh. Yeah. Okay. You said of yourself that you're very driven. And I would describe myself the same way, and leisure is might be one of my challenges, right?

Is yoga leisure, I don't know, like yoga's. Sometimes it's work. My dog walks leisure. I don't know. Sadie doesn't think so. She thinks they're, core business functions. Where leisure, that's a really good que like, if I'm reading a book, am I reading a book because [00:40:00] it's supporting my work in some way?

Or am I reading fiction? Fiction? Might be leisure. I don't know. Tell me how that shows up for you or your clients when you're thinking about leisure as work 'cause that, or leisure as part of. Career and life development. Yeah. I maybe wouldn't have called it really that until I read this definition, just full di disclosure.

But I have written a lot and I talk a lot with my clients as it comes up as it's relevant about the necessity of downtime. Whether that is just time with friends, time with nature, time, looking at other people's art time. Zoning out. Yeah. Sitting on a beach, going on a vacation somewhere.

Just getting out your day to day and having a rest and a break. Yeah. Work It's, and it's so absolutely essential, I would argue for. [00:41:00] Critically necessary for creatives because it's what fuels creativity. And there's actually brain science behind this in terms of your, because when you're doing something mundane, yes, that's when your brain is in the background.

And making connections and doing it stuff, making connections and, that's why we get our best ideas in the shower or, that's the it, I'm doing the things that I always do. And then that idea comes and I read this great quote from the the artist who wrote Hamilton, whose name I'm forgetting at the moment, Lynn Manuel Miranda.

Yes. Who the idea for that show came well on a vacation and they talked about if I had not taken that break, I would never have gotten that [00:42:00] idea. So what if your best idea ever as an artist or creative is just waiting for you to take a break? Yeah. So that it can speak to you. I used to be a regular listener of a podcast, I think it was an NPR podcast called Note to Self, and it was about tech and life and whatnot.

And the host was a woman named Minutia Zu. And she wrote a book called, I'm Gonna Bring It Up, bored And Brilliant how spacing out can unlock your most productive and creative self. Yeah. And and because of her work, hosting a tech podcast, it was a little bit of a pushback against scrolling on your phone is actually not downtime.

No, [00:43:00] it is not. Yeah. And, but we do that because, email doom scrolling, all of that, it feels productive. And so leisure and downtime is stepping outside of the rush towards productivity and outcome. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Artists can particularly fall victim to not paying attention to leisure time because they get, can easily get trapped into the if I'm not working or if I say no to this thing, like I'm gonna I'm not gonna have enough income coming in, or I won't I won't get this next opportunity.

I have to keep working all the time. I can't afford to take time off is something I hear a lot. Yep. Actually, you can't afford not to. Yeah. That is super important. So [00:44:00] I am going in the notes for this episode. I will of course have your website and blog and information about you.

Is there anything else that you think, that you would like people to think about or take away from your insights in coaching creatives? I guess it is. I come back to this a lot, that there is no one right way. To build a life and career as a creative professional. Yep. Or as an artist and creative. Yep. And that sorry, I just lost my train of thought. So you're gonna have to edit this while I think what I was going to say, Jennifer d script to the rescue man.

You say, oh shoot. It was right on the tip of my tongue. Oh, yes. It really is part the, I think [00:45:00] that the work for artists and creatives is to be really bracing. The designing how they work also as part of, as a creative act. And the permission and joy that comes with that. Yeah. Call to design the creative practice of your creative practice.

Yeah. And you can bring creativity into like how you approach your admin work as an artist. Yeah. Yes. Which, which reminds me of like bullet journaling and can I make my to-do list as aesthetically pleasing as possible? Yeah. Literally. Yeah. Yeah, that's, you can really bring your creativity into all aspects of it, not just what your.

Making or [00:46:00] creating as a Right, not just the stuff that's outcome focused. Yeah. You know that my daughter is an art student and I'm thinking about her as I say this, like I know that she is more inclined to do the mundane when the mundane is pretty, when the mundane feels a certain way. If the mundane feels like a spreadsheet, she is not gonna do it.

If the mundane. Feels like a bullet journal with multiple colors and figures and shapes, she's more likely to do it. Just the energy of those two administrative spaces are super different and one is gonna work for one person and not for another. So yeah, that brings very true. I was just interrupted by Sadie, so hello Sadie.

Is it lunchtime? Sadie, the puppy says is lunchtime.

I locked the princess mini out of the room so she's not Oh, yeah. No. If I not a cat. [00:47:00] I have a barn door in, in my office, and if I shut it, then she, it rattles when she bumps up against it. Yeah. So it's not, that's not a good solution.

Thank you so much for coming on and for talking about this. I think that the parallels between e even for academics who aren't creatives and creatives who aren't academics, thinking about balancing a creative practice that calling the thing that is. Maybe really precious and you, hopefully really precious and you want to give it the time and attention and space it deserves, but it's always getting crowded out by other things.

I think that the having coaching support to be like, okay, how are you, how can you exist in the shades of gray? Right that aren't just black and white. I'm either, full-time in my day job as a lawyer [00:48:00] or I'm full-time in my writing. Shed being brilliant. But honoring this, the precious thing that you want to do and honoring maybe some of the mundane that you have to do to pay the bills or making both of them beautiful.

Bringing structure to the creative and bringing creative to the structure so that you feel like you have a beautiful life. I couldn't have put it any better than what you just said. Aw, thanks. For everybody listening, thank you for coming along for this conversation. Between me and Chris, you'll be able to find all sorts of things about Chris at, what's your website?

Just, I'll have it in the notes, but just say it. It's Chris Mitchell, do life coach okay. Dot com. Do life coach.com. Okay. I coach com. Okay. Chris mitchell life coach.com. I had it pulled up, but then I closed a bunch of tabs to hit record like you do. So [00:49:00] you will find her there and like me based here in Canada where spring is finally showing up.

And I will let you know when this is out so that you can share it with your audience. And I look forward to people who are listening to this finding you. Thank you. Thanks so much, Jennifer. I really enjoyed the conversation and look forward to crossing paths again. Absolutely. I enjoyed it as well.